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(Emyn) 732 (Caneuon Ffydd) |
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(Emyn) [Eifion Wyn] |
(2, 2) 889 |
What did you call this place? |
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(Tywysydd) The chapel. |
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(Tywysydd) 'Capel', we say in Welsh. |
(2, 2) 892 |
Chapel. |
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(2, 2) 894 |
But you said 'church' didn't you – as we got in the car? |
(2, 2) 895 |
'I'll take you to see the church'? |
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(Tywysydd) It's what I thought you'd understand. |
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(Tywysydd) It's what I thought you'd understand. |
(2, 2) 897 |
Sorry. |
(2, 2) 898 |
I'm confused. |
(2, 2) 899 |
There's a difference? |
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(Tywysydd) Yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Big difference, really – years ago. |
(2, 2) 904 |
Such as? |
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(Tywysydd) Well – it's difficult generalising, but we still tend to think of church – many of us – most of us – as... well, not so Welsh. |
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(Tywysydd) Well – it's difficult generalising, but we still tend to think of church – many of us – most of us – as... well, not so Welsh. |
(2, 2) 906 |
Not so Welsh as...? |
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(Tywysydd) As chapel. |
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(Tywysydd) Chapels. |
(2, 2) 909 |
Language, you mean? |
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(Tywysydd) Language is part of it – yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Y werin – the common people. |
(2, 2) 913 |
So it's a class thing. |
(2, 2) 914 |
Or was. |
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(Tywysydd) Sort of. |
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(Tywysydd) Or his butler, or anyone like that. |
(2, 2) 921 |
They'd be church people. |
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(Tywysydd) Oh yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Oh yes. |
(2, 2) 923 |
The elite in the church and everyone else here? |
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(Tywysydd) Just about, yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Back then, anyway – beginning of the war. |
(2, 2) 926 |
Back in my great-grandmother's time. |
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(Tywysydd) From the dates you've given me, yes. |
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(Tywysydd) From the dates you've given me, yes. |
(2, 2) 928 |
And this is where she worshiped? |
(2, 2) 929 |
This is the place gra'ma and her talk about in the letters? |
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(Tywysydd) Enw'r capel - yes. |
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(Tywysydd) One of the places. |
(2, 2) 933 |
Oh yes. This and the church house. |
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(Tywysydd) Chapel. |
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(Tywysydd) The chapel house. |
(2, 2) 936 |
Chapel house. |
(2, 2) 937 |
Of course. |
(2, 2) 938 |
So, what was she – some sort of housekeeper? |
(2, 2) 939 |
Looking after the priest? |
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(Tywysydd) Oh, no-no. |
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(Tywysydd) Chapel house is for the... well, caretaker, I suppose. |
(2, 2) 943 |
Oh. |
(2, 2) 944 |
Looking after the chapel. |
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(Tywysydd) Yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Cleaning and polishing and things. |
(2, 2) 947 |
Lot of work. |
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(Tywysydd) A lot of work. |
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(Tywysydd) And no shortage of bosses! |
(2, 2) 950 |
Bosses? |
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(Tywysydd) Well, all the members. |
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(Tywysydd) Their money had to keep it going. |
(2, 2) 958 |
Oh, I see. |
(2, 2) 959 |
Collaborative. |
(2, 2) 960 |
Collective. |
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(Tywysydd) Collective – that's the word. |
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(Tywysydd) Collective – that's the word. |
(2, 2) 962 |
Mm. |
(2, 2) 963 |
I see. |
(2, 2) 964 |
I'm beginning to get it now – I think. |
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(Tywysydd) This church/chapel thing? |
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(Tywysydd) This church/chapel thing? |
(2, 2) 966 |
Yes, and – well, the whole thing. |
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(Tywysydd) The whole thing? |
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(Tywysydd) The whole thing? |
(2, 2) 968 |
Yes. |
(2, 2) 969 |
It's different, isn't it. |
(2, 2) 970 |
Your way of life round here. |
(2, 2) 971 |
Wales. |
(2, 2) 972 |
Being Welsh. |
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(Tywysydd) Well – yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Well – yes. |
(2, 2) 974 |
And still is? |
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(Tywysydd) Oh, yes – yes. |
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(Tywysydd) For one thing, this place would have been just about full on a Sunday. |
(2, 2) 979 |
For the mass – communion. |
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(Tywysydd) No. |
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(Tywysydd) For the sermon. |
(2, 2) 983 |
Ah! |
(2, 2) 984 |
Of course. |
(2, 2) 985 |
I knew there was something besides the shape that's different. |
(2, 2) 986 |
No altar. |
(2, 2) 987 |
So – does that mean you... you worship the preacher? |
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(Tywysydd) {Yn chwerthin.} |
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(Tywysydd) Educating people. |
(2, 2) 994 |
Telling them what to think. |
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(Tywysydd) No-no-no. |
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(Tywysydd) Teaching them to think. |
(2, 2) 1000 |
Wow! |
(2, 2) 1001 |
Sounds dangerous to me. |
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(Tywysydd) I think it probably was – at its best. |
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(Tywysydd) Radicalising. |
(2, 2) 1005 |
Radicalising? |
(2, 2) 1006 |
That's a dangerous word, these days. |
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(Tywysydd) Always has been. |
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(Tywysydd) Always has been. |
(2, 2) 1009 |
Hundred years ago – 1914 - must have been... must have been quite fervent here. |
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(Tywysydd) How d'you mean? |
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(Tywysydd) How d'you mean? |
(2, 2) 1011 |
Well, anti-war. |
(2, 2) 1012 |
They must have been shouting peace at the top of their heads! |
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(Tywysydd) Yes. |
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(Tywysydd) You'd have thought so, wouldn't you. |
(2, 2) 1015 |
D'you mean – they weren't? |
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(Tywysydd) It's complicated. |
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(Tywysydd) It's complicated. |
(2, 2) 1017 |
Complicated? |
(2, 2) 1018 |
I don't understand. |
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(Ysbryd y Bardd) Nag wyt, gyfaill. |
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(Tywysydd) I'll show you where your great-grandmother used to live. |
(2, 2) 1044 |
Chapel – I'm right now, aren't I – Chapel House. |
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(Tywysydd) Chapel House. |
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(Darllenwr sur iawn) Mai o law Duw yr oedd. |
(2, 10) 1445 |
Did you get hold of her? |
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(Tywysydd) Yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Still feeling a bit shaky. |
(2, 10) 1450 |
Oh, dear. |
(2, 10) 1451 |
That's the worst with old age. |
(2, 10) 1452 |
Didn't break anything, did she? |
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(Tywysydd) No-no. |
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(Tywysydd) I should have thought. |
(2, 10) 1457 |
Could I call with her, d'you think? |
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(Tywysydd) Oh, yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Although... |
(2, 10) 1462 |
Nervous of strangers? |
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(Tywysydd) No-no, it's not that. |
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(Tywysydd) She told me what she knows – what she remembers about Mrs. Jones, Tŷ Capel – Chapel House. |
(2, 10) 1466 |
My great-grandmother. |
(2, 10) 1467 |
Yes. Well, that's just it, you see. |
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(Tywysydd) Look, how do you know... |
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(Tywysydd) Why do you say she's your great-grandmother – Mrs. Jones? |
(2, 10) 1471 |
Well – because she was. |
(2, 10) 1472 |
The letters – you've seen the letters. |
(2, 10) 1473 |
From gra'ma to her – her mother. |
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(Tywysydd) Yes. |
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(Tywysydd) I can see that... well, that it looks like that. |
(2, 10) 1476 |
Looks like that? |
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(Tywysydd) Have you looked at the records – your grandmother's birth certificates – things like that? |
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(2, 10) 1479 |
No! I've only just started taking an interest, really – as I said. |
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(Tywysydd) Mm. |
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(Tywysydd) Well, perhaps it would've been better if you'd done a bit of checking first – before coming all the way here. |
(2, 10) 1482 |
Look – what are you saying. |
(2, 10) 1483 |
That gran'ma Mati wasn't my gran'ma? |
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(Tywysydd) No. |
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(Tywysydd) Wasn't your great-grandmother. |
(2, 10) 1488 |
You sure? |
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(Tywysydd) Sorry, but yes. |
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(Tywysydd) Always stayed at the Marine, she said. |
(2, 10) 1493 |
Marine? |
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(Tywysydd) The hotel – Aberystwyth. |
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(Tywysydd) She'd done well for herself, hadn't she? |
(2, 10) 1496 |
Oh yes. |
(2, 10) 1497 |
Yes. |
(2, 10) 1498 |
Sister Jones by the time she met gra'mpa. |
(2, 10) 1499 |
But – those letters... |
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(Tywysydd) Mrs. Jones Tŷ Capel didn't have a daughter. |
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(Tywysydd) Just a son. |
(2, 10) 1502 |
A son! |
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(Tywysydd) With your grandmother's things, were there any letters from someone called Ifan – Evan-John? |
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(Tywysydd) With your grandmother's things, were there any letters from someone called Ifan – Evan-John? |
(2, 10) 1504 |
Evan John? – |
(2, 10) 1505 |
No. |
(2, 10) 1506 |
Don't remember that name at all. |
(2, 10) 1507 |
Should there've been? |
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(Tywysydd) Perhaps not. |
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(Tywysydd) It was Birmingham she went to to start with, wasn't it? |
(2, 10) 1512 |
Yes. |
(2, 10) 1513 |
Who was this Evan John then? |
(2, 10) 1514 |
Is he related to me? |
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(Tywysydd) Could have been – in a way – were it not for Lloyd George. |
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(Tywysydd) Could have been – in a way – were it not for Lloyd George. |
(2, 10) 1516 |
Lloyd George? |
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(Tywysydd) Lloyd George. |
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(Tywysydd) All those who drew them in and sent them off. |
(2, 10) 1521 |
I see. |
(2, 10) 1522 |
Were it not for the war, I could have been Welsh! |
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(Tywysydd) Sort of. |
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(Tywysydd) Sort of. |
(2, 10) 1525 |
So gra'ma wasn't Mrs. Jones' daughter. |
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(Tywysydd) No. |
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(Tywysydd) She wasn't. |
(2, 10) 1528 |
She wasn't related to her at all. |
(2, 10) 1529 |
That's... well... |
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(2, 10) 1531 |
D'you think we could call by Mrs. Williams – would you mind? |
(2, 10) 1532 |
Get the whole story. |
(2, 10) 1533 |
There's so much to sort out in my head. |
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(Tywysydd) Of course. |
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(Tywysydd) Of course. |
(2, 10) 1539 |
This Evan John – what happened to him? |
(2, 10) 1540 |
Did he make it? |
(2, 10) 1541 |
Get back? |